When Lifeaffirming = Tired Leitmotif

[skywardprodigal]

Setup: The original version of Nisay garnered some criticism.

darlas_mom asked: "From genocide to celebrity assfucking in ten easy steps? WTF?! How could anyone think that could possibly be okay?!"

I came back with the following:

It's lifeaffirming. The people that live there are poor but happy even though they have much less than the fabulous young lovers.

"We're a couple of rich white guys and we're just on vacation and more in touch with our humanity than ever before." Cue sunset.

Maybe they'll adopt a smiling child and learn more about love and laughter as the child is more in touch with life, nature, and What's Really Important than kids back home.

Comments

[ingrid-m.livejournal.com]

See, and I think exactly the opposite -- that this type of slash is a throwback to the hoariest old Victorian ideals, with a healthy dose of Victorian racial/sexual/gender standards thrown in for good measure.

I think a lot of this lily-white OTP m/m slash is regressive, hidden beneath a veneer of "it's about gays so it makes it beyond reproach so STFU" The only problem with this is that these "gays" are nothing more than a het romance-novel cliche in disguise that excludes everyone else -- women, pocs, lesbians, etc, for reasons that are dicey to say the least.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

that this type of slash is a throwback to the hoariest old Victorian ideals, with a healthy dose of Victorian racial/sexual/gender standards thrown in for good measure.

Oh, for reals? (Of course for reals). Break it down for me some more, please? *blinks* WOW.

O.O

Wow. You've just blown off the top of my head. O.O

[ingrid-m.livejournal.com]

Let me preface this by saying I don't think it's conscious or deliberate, but the type of slash I'm talking about (which, of course, is not all slash before I get hit with the generalization stick) is basically a Victorian het romance novel with two dicks instead of one, plus all the dicey things this genre comes with -- a pronounced lack of racial/gender/queer consciousness, which isn't surprising, considering the subconscious old-timey inspiration.

The "rape leads to love" fantasy, the bodice ripper, the hurt/comfort as a means to sexual liberation, the "exotic other" -- these are tropes that can be traced for a large part to 19th century sensibilities and are seen in this kind of slash over and over again.

Look, it's just a pet theory that will probably get me into all kinds of hot water, lol, but needless to say, I don't believe the kind of slash that uses these things is progressive, edgy or anything of the kind -- in fact, I think it's as old and conservative as the hills.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

a pronounced lack of racial/gender/queer consciousness, which isn't surprising, considering the subconscious old-timey inspiration.


Ah-hah. O.O

Um. Yeah. I think I've read/deleted what you mention. O.O Cool pet theory.

[silverthorne.livejournal.com]

If I can drop a few cents in, I think you nailed it right on the head. God knows that of all the slash pairings I've seen in RP on LJ (which is pretty much just one step sideways from salh fanfic, and often travels hand-in-hand with these players), I'd say about 98-99% of them could be text book, check off the marks as you go down the list, examples of everything you just said, with maybe variations on whichever male is the 'girl' being a little stronger or a little weaker.

[ingrid-m.livejournal.com]

Oh, and you can also trace the fascination with romantic sibling incest to this time -- it was perhaps the most favortist thing of all back in those days.

Which might be a reason why the SPN fandom, for all its edgy possibilities is probably the most backwards-looking fandom of all.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

*sneering stronger than Elvis*

Yeah. I now see why so many people call SPN, and SPN fans self-hating racist misogynists.

[ingrid-m.livejournal.com]

I meant to say "19th century white European sensibilities", duh. ;)

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

I figured as much.

[quinacridones.livejournal.com]

See, and I think exactly the opposite -- that this type of slash is a throwback to the hoariest old Victorian ideals, with a healthy dose of Victorian racial/sexual/gender standards thrown in for good measure.

Yes! I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with every comment you've made here. And this is as a slash fan who reads almost exclusively slash (I go to original fiction for hetero relationships) and cannot stand most 98% of slash, so I don't have a lot of fanfic to enjoy period.

For many it's like... one of those low-fat, LITE! desserts. Indulge in all of these oppressive ideals with none of the guilt. It's enraging sometimes how so many folks can have two guys fucking in the most oppressively heternormative relationships ever and there are still no women about!

Then you got all the people who are like, don't judge my kink! But kinda like how their slash dynamics tend to be ridiculously heterosexual, their kink dynamics are ridiculously vanilla, as there tends to be little willingness to negotiate the issues of power and consent. I think more slash would be a lot less horrible if they reframed some of these cliches away from a simple regurgitation of our societies' oppressive institutions and Harlequin romance novels, and more towards self-aware kink spaces like feminization, power play, age play, mpreg-as-a-kink, etc., as well as actual queerness. But then that would require an explicit exploration of female sexuality (and how it is constructed in society) on the author's part, which is exactly what this kind of slash is an escape from.

[ingrid-m.livejournal.com]

But then that would require an explicit exploration of female sexuality (and how it is constructed in society) on the author's part, which is exactly what this kind of slash is an escape from.

*nods* It's also a large part of the racial disconnect -- pocs weren't originally part of this repressed fodder and when someone says, 'uh, where are a couple of the, you know, 2 billion OTHER people who live on this planet in all these stories" -- that's where the head-scratching comes in, even though, if a writer could step back from their protection of the fantasy they'd see that this exclusion in any kind of literary endeavor, even erotica, makes no sense.

There's an amount of self-awareness here that's necessary to appreciate these issues that I'm not sure fandom has or wants -- which is why we're feeling the friction now. People are possessive and protective of what gets them off, often at the price of rational thought.

[ingrid-m.livejournal.com]

PS: Do you mind if I friend you? Reading through your journal I see you're 100% my kind of person. :D Let me know.

[quinacridones.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, friend away! :)

[sarahenany]

Um... have you read Dorinda? She might be one of the 2%. Just thought I'd rec.