skywardprodigal: Beautiful seated woman, laughing, in Vlisco. (Default)

Race, Gender, and Visuality in Marie Benoist's Portrait d'une négresse (1800)

That acoutrements rather than people who merit their own acoutrements...Pretty much why black models are a different kind of prop in the fashion industry than white ones.
skywardprodigal: Beautiful seated woman, laughing, in Vlisco. (Default)
This time with straight-up disrespect.

"Hey, I feel left out. Maybe I've got a reason?" Is not an attack.

But I guess as far as SOME people are concerned, if you're not a member of a certain club, you should just be grateful if you're allowed to pass. Maybe.

I mean, am I seeing what I think I'm seeing? What do I think I'm seeing? Variations on, "Shut up, how dare you bring your religion/self/identity/agendas into fandom. Who do you think you are?"

ETA: Don we now our flameproof armor: one fan's perspective on the discussions regarding [ profile] mamadeb's post.


Aug. 8th, 2007 08:34 am
skywardprodigal: Beautiful seated woman, laughing, in Vlisco. (Default)
How do you describe success? By what you inspire people to do.

Interview with Ernie Manouse
skywardprodigal: Beautiful seated woman, laughing, in Vlisco. (Default)
Israeli fashion house 'Irit' has this picture up at their main page.

Anyone care to try unpacking these? )

Sometimes, what I see is so offensive, I wonder why I bother even trying to look at fashion or aesthetics. I'm appalled.

Oh, the white model is Bar Rafaeli.

ETA: This is up here because I'm hoping that those who do see this, and may have a problem with what it depicts and codes, will hie themselves to the contact section of Irit's main site and share their opinion of this in reasonable, polite terms.

x-posted to [ profile] sex_and_race.

ETA: debunkingwhite, feminist, & blackfolk discussions.
skywardprodigal: a cloudy and bright blue sky (blue skies)
...sometimes unexamined biases get the better of an author. While that may not mean much to some readers, it can annoy and offend others. As it is, variations of "Shut up" and "Go find something important to be bothered about" and "Who can win? You people either complain that no one's writing characters of color, but when someone writes them, you jump on them for not doing it right" appear.

Anyway, I'm reposting this with permission from [ profile] coniraya who originally posted this in their lj:

"So remember that whole bru-ha-ha in my journal over an SGA AU community and the brown folk and women being given lesser jobs that they deserved as comparatively to the white folk. Well some wrote a story (different AU same problem, no Teyla and everyone else has a high-powered job except for Barista!Ronon) and a friend made a comment (which was right on in my opinion) then three people jumped on her tail. She asked me for help and I went over and commented but I feel like it might turn crazy. So this is kind of a call for anyone willing to provide a little back-up. It hasn't jumped off yet but I have a feeling it might. Have a look."

For the rest of the post, and the ensuing invective, go here.

As for me, I look at it like this: meeting unconscious stupidity with deliberate contempt may not be nice, but I'm tired. Usually, in fandom, I find that I have to be polite and patient in the form of steady, predictable, offense and disrespect when talking about race. Mostly, people who are white, or white-identified, tend to discount the opinion of a person of color when it comes to racism, prejudice, proportion, and offense. And they wonder why "all" the "black" kids are sitting together in the cafeteria.

I mean, what it comes down to is, that you gotta be Ghandi or MLK to play nice by some people's rules, and that's not nice enough, because there are still plenty of people, worldwide and statewide, that have a hate on for them both and that was in regards to life and death issues. So when it comes out in's seen as bitchery or pissing on someone's cornflakes...or being rude. "Too sensitive" is a term that gets thrown out a lot a lot a lot.

Anyway, this post is edited down from what it originally appears like, because the message is more important than my emotional reality. And, apparently, all those arguing on the 'Unconscious bias right there, okay!' side of the discussion don't get heard. Aside from a few polite people, I hate fandom right now.

And now, other people's commentary, which is less angry and quite carefully appears to be outlined according to b/e's 10 rules for discussing race with white/white-identified people:

Livia Penn's (Hypothetically-setting the context without excusing or endorsing flaming)

'zee's take (Pete Wentz v Jason Momoa, "Why is p0rning one the way it is but not when (and if ever) p0rning the other?)

mimesere's take (Watch that anger among other things.)

[ profile] ciderpress' "Could you maybe take a look at what's right there if you got the eyes to see it?")

[ profile] telesilla's ("Bulletpoints to those who love subverting texts.")

[ profile] carlanime's "I’d point out the mote in your eye, but then there’s that chip on my shoulder." (this is the public version)

[ profile] rydra_wong's extensive list of related links (Good list, continually updated list).

[ profile] witchwillow's "Wherein I Pimp My Roommate's Coming Essay Like A Hard Hard Thing"

Re: The SGA Debate (...It's a perspective on this mess.)

[ profile] livapenn's I suspect I'm able, and I choose, to approach racism without the "tone" that bothered so many people because I have the option to be less personally invested in it than many POC. ("If it comes from a white fan with cred, will ya try to get it?")

[ profile] umbo's Meta thoughts (Some Supernatural ideas come in too. And boy, the equating of being attracted to characters of color, and being attracted to fictional incest is damn squicky. DAMN. And people wonder why discussions of race & perceived race in fandom get heated.)

[ profile] witchqueen's She got her ghetto pass the old-fashioned way. She *earned* it. (Zvi's advice on dynamics and 'dogpiling'.)

[ profile] monanotlisa attempts to be rational while riding the line:
One underlying assumption seemed to be that we're all beyond that -- that we've created this queer female space of internet fandom and the least offensive realm in existence already. Which doesn't take into consideration that our sandbox is neither uniform nor free-floating. Even within SGA fandom, if only you edge into John/Elizabeth or pretty much any Elizabeth/male territory, you'll find icons with captions like, "John Sheppard is not gay!" and enraged posts on that subject. If you look around within the slash world, you'll find ficathons that focus on killing Elizabeth. I'm not an Elizabeth fan, but I had to swallow pretty hard at seeing that. Is the thought of structurally demoting Ronon and/or Teyla in some fics sometimes in part due to the shade of their skin really so out there?

[ profile] yeloson on the backlash from some discussion at SNR:
Fandom in particular, I think has a couple of things going on with it above and beyond just the "OMG! POC voices!

First, I think it's that fandom has always been about a level of escapism, and a good deal of white escapism involves a world without POC, or POC who go along with the program with a smile. The idea of POC "invading" the fandom and actually participating destroys that fantasy right there.

I think very few people in fandom are actually socially marginalized. Granted, there's always going to be the wackos (believing they're Frodo, in the Matrix, or whatever), but a lot of the people who went crazy over the blackface discussion were actually socially well adjusted in real life- until suddenly I spoke on race.

What I think it is, is that they can't "escape into" fandom away from us. We're part of fandom too, and fandom is online, ergo... This sends a lot of them into a panic (see the backlash to the girl who played Harry Potter's love interest...) Neither the fantasy of a world without us, or a magical online existence without our voices can exist, and they don't know how to live without privilege, so they lash out.


skywardprodigal: Beautiful seated woman, laughing, in Vlisco. (Default)
a princess of now

October 2010

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